This NASCAR Engine Was Built 20 Years Ago and NEVER Used! How Much Power Has It Lost? (Ford C3)

was scary how much rust was in these cylinders ah that's disgusting you remember how there were two engines in Lake speed's garage well we showed you the refresh of the first one which was a used engine the second one he had rebuilt 20 years ago and it just sat we were about to dyno that and find out what it does with Lake Jr the Curiosity Mitchell it can't resist it it's like okay the other one was down you know 200 horsepower from where the dyno sheet said when we died last summer we could never really figure out what that Smoking Gun was just sitting is that what did it we know we found some Rust and some things here and there so once you pick up 300 horsepower you're like oh my God I have to have an answer and we had that other one sitting on there in the floor and it's like okay it made the same power essentially as the other engine 20 years ago we have a Dyno we have an engine let's put it back in the exact same Dyno and let Venice do his magic again and see what happens through a refresh perspective it would be kind of fun to refresh this engine do everything we did before except no new cam no new valve springs leave the valve train part of it out see what just updating the heads and the manifold the hone and the Pistons and the Rings what does that do by itself how much is due to what we don't know yeah this will give us a little bit of an idea of what we can find out you take out the biggest what is probably on paper the biggest gain is the cam specs oh yeah when Billy did the camera you saw there was a ton more lift right so like that's for certainly you know a ton of it there's no doubt and it's cool that it's the same Dino as the Baseline test on the other one too so there's no variable there should we tell them what we saw but wait we need to do this though when the video is running and you see these wailing around this is just little frayed edges it's not arcing you know how many comments I answered about that oh you're sparked up on the valve cover oh I still I still get that one too nope this is these are really old it was scary how much rust was in these cylinders so this is going to be really interesting to see because we pulled pulled it out and we fogged it down a couple weeks ago I was horrified how much rust was in here did we look inside the other one first no we never did we never looked in there no we have no idea what it was like so we don't know if the Rings were filing that rust off and it was just gone by the time we tore it apart yeah we have no idea that'll be interesting to see how much of that goes away after this Dino session that's why this one's in a sense almost more fun than the other one is because we just skipped a whole bunch of steps this time around we're gonna pay more close attention because we're like ah it's all it's going to be junk so he didn't think it'd be that bad Chuck it's a science yeah so yeah yeah yeah you have to be a little more analytical this time and and more patient in our approach so how much power did this one make on its Dyno sheet in 2002. 711 711 yeah it's actually made more than the other one okay this will be fun so I ask you what your prediction is or do you already know [Laughter] well I've learned this veteran Dino guys like Dennis know way more than they ever lied on yeah it's just 40 years worth so I like watching stuff go wrong or maybe go right yeah what fuel is it on this time the same Dino yeah now this time you did check compression beforehand this time again and linked it down right yeah man it wasn't like Horrible no not at all stuff was just sprayed in there did a pretty good job so you fog it with I saw how bad it was before we left last time I emptied this entire can in the engine did I see that number right yeah this one runs what yeah this one runs maybe fog is Magic I don't know uh what the heck some of them all right so here's the deal look so this is the dyno sheet from December 2004. really this thing made 730 8100 RPM 735 and 83. yeah and the lines you usually got to get a couple runs in there right right you average it out and it was pulled this back then it was only important about we'll call it five inches of vacuum and you're going eight inches of vacuum now well vacuum makes a whole lot of difference yeah so it was maybe that dinos like not broken in like the Rings weren't suited completely and now the rust inside made it seal what are we doing here Dad said this is the engine that was brand new that's never been in the car it was freshened up and set down and never raced saffron 19 years the Springs were compressed too everything like you didn't touch the Rockers did you no no so that's myth busted oh God yeah oh totally yeah that's the acorn of power that's it well what I'm screaming is this might be magic I don't know so you're saying this thing aged like a fine wine on the floor of the garage 190 degree oil temperature it was right at you know 81 pounds of oil pressure and you're where are we now you're a 193 right you're right there at it for it 61. now this was probably back in the old days it's probably like 20 50 as it's probably the old 76 20 50 more than likely for everybody around is this the 1550 or the 1030 Dyno stuff you guys use okay that's it 32 degrees timing yep interesting the other one was at what 28 I think when we ran the other engine saw it did it like more than 28. I don't remember what it was yeah I don't remember it was 28 we can't strength remember is this a nine to one engine oh no this is 14. yeah yeah that's one reason why this one runs a lot better is a lot more compression yeah obviously I think Bobby built this one for Dad so because you know Dad's been down on power everybody else he's like well here we'll we'll tune this one up okay but then he never went to go run it so either got a chance to run the one that was tuned up a little bit white wine through the fuel yeah I want to drop to it 10 pounds below eight nine ten eleven pounds see it's gotten a little bit leaner through here huh but it it feels different and then it gets leaner as it goes past it but everyone's a little bit different for every motor so this is where Bill pink would go in and change the size of those air bleeds and the three block five two yeah fine tune it so that seems to be really making less as it gets hotter yeah to me is Pistons are a little too tight because they're expand they're expanding to the point where they're fitting tighter in the cylinder that's the only thing that could cause more driving yourself can you lean it out a little bit like that it's going to make it a little bit hotter too right so they do that more probably why they ended up after 20 Dino pools they had it a little bit richer as well they probably saw the same things like okay it's just going to run better a little bit richer because they needed the fuel to cool it shows how critical those those little measurements are because if you can get that down to where you can run a leaner then you make more power by being leaner and not having that that resistance how was that fuel measured is that in the like the fuel pump system of the dyno counter right up there and see the water oh yeah instead of interesting to think about how that may have affected certain engine builders in their uh perceived skill level back in the time where people didn't really know how to measure this stuff to where some guy just thought oh well you make the piston this big in relation to the tolerance of the bore and if other people have different beliefs on that and whoever may have just been doing it a little bit looser than some other guy could have had better engines Without Really realizing what they were doing it depends a lot on the alloy because some of the Allies expand some of the Allies are soft and they're more forgiving so the skirts tend to like squish and on some of the hard Alloys the Piston is really rigid but depending upon the block and upon the home depends what it's going to do there's no telling once you find your combination stick with it if you were to Rockwell test Pistons from the 80s with the same part number come up with different numbers like from like the material differences if they're brand new they shouldn't interesting if they're used they're all going to come up different because lots a lot of the way we tune a lot of stuff it's by the Rockwell hardness on the Piston like all Chevys run number seven runs hot because of the length of the runners the way it's saturated so we always run a little bit more jet in that corner to compensate for it and we'll take the motor apart we measure the hardness on all the Pistons and we can tell if we're going in the right direction or not you can compensate so much in the manifold that you can only get so close we spend a lot of time on manifold development so if you can tell them I have money are out there on the Shelf there's a lot more of them out in the trailer yeah the 8300 RPM in 2004 it made 732. and it made 733 at the exact same RPM today oil was 189 then water 175 171 you have it yeah that's that's close yeah yeah that's really close to the margin of error of different Dyno cells different absolutely it's almost unreal that it could be this close I'm I'm impressed yeah I'm really impressed so it's safe to say that it's exactly the same absolutely that's it that is incredible were you expecting that to happen because we weren't by the way that means like put your what you're thinking in the comments you speak up this is pretty cool in the comment section on this one's gonna go crazy right this defies everything we thought but my uncle's brother's Pappy's cousin said Springs compressed go bad I'll go back to must be magic that's all I got you know the rate might change with the open and close pressures stayed the same and it was totally by accident that I found that out but they were old Springs and PSI I don't even think was in business back then the only thing you really have to worry about when something sits like that that along with the valves open is it's kind of lost a lot of wear on the rollers it's like it's pushing on the needles really hard so you have to worry about killing the wheel so you're more worried about the wheel and the lifter than you are the spring being compressed yeah Springs usually come right back if you take a spring you put it on a spring tester and it reads Low take it out of tester throw it on the floor pick it up stick it back in the tester it'll read back what it's supposed to read really how'd you figure that out trial and error I dropped one one day by mistake and I went wow you read it see what it was and it was up like 20 pounds I was like I was back from them before I really high-tech PSAs the PSI stuff and all that learned something new every day I guess so I guess the myth of having your engine with the Rockers compressed for a long time or like having to you know oh spin your motor over every six months to keep your Springs fresh it's not really necessary I don't really think so I don't think very many people do when I saw the number start to go up to six and it touched seven I was like are you kidding me what what was crazy is to look at this Dino sheet from literally 19 years ago and these numbers are incredibly close to what it just did just now that's like nuts yeah it's like it did nothing yeah like nothing happened nothing happened didn't see that one coming I'm gonna tell you right now no I did not either after the last one I'm like oh okay because we we saw inside the cylinders like oh man that's bad oh oh that doesn't look good yeah we had been making it bet I'd have lost money on this one for certain so now we can see what it looks like inside there yeah I want to see what those walls look like now oh absolutely that it ran oh yeah well now I'm really glad I brought the new Pro kilometer with the microscope to really look at that really close okay yeah yeah we're gonna really dive into it and see because that is incredible yeah so we're gonna get this thing off the dyno and start tearing it down while it's still warm into the operating room really doesn't need surgery he's perfectly healthy but we're gonna find out what's going on in there anyway we're just curious thanks right for science yeah exactly for science see what's in here this is a really long valve guides what is that all about oh that is interesting [Music] that seems like a much easier way to do the sump than the other one you remember there was a box in here yes I do quick reminder if this is the second or third time you've watched us on this channel before hit that subscribe button so you see the future videos quicker it doesn't cost anything it just tells you when we post something new and I think if you've watched us more than once you would want to see that can you analyze it with your finger uh I can't analyze with my finger but I do think we'll take a sample and analyze it just for fun Big Springs oh August 03 they're a little newer the other one said what 0-1 I think yeah the Oilers in there they're capped or those Jets or those caps are jets I can't tell 12 14 98. maybe this is a newer head version than the other ones okay so this engine is actually the better of the two engines for certain and I can tell you that by looking right here bushings so the original engine is sitting back over there didn't have bushings we end up putting bushings in it to upgrade it this one already has bushings on it so I think this is the engine he actually ran the most back in the day this was the real race engine and they ended up using the other engine in the last race at Daytona just because this one had been hurt it was being freshened up so that's the reason why he didn't have it for that last race when it overheated was that this thing was still at the engine shop getting fixed up from where he had had run it so much before because we look at the build sheets this engine had been built three times in a couple years so this is the primary race piece he really had these or one eight ratio rockers where the other ones were ones uh one five one six if they had been flat spotted after sitting for so long to be rolling all the way over and you don't feel it catch anywhere you know you don't have a flat spot we're having some technical difficulties we try to get the upper washers off because sometimes they can bind around the studs okay it's okay all right [Music] ah yeah there it is oh those look a lot better than the other ones oh yeah oh yeah but what happens is they get mushroomed over so bad up here these heads are probably a little bit soft and they're just squished over so hard are you guys having fun I missed all the fun apparently so last time it was the oil pan that followed us this time is the heads ah this engine's like I'm fine leave me alone hey I made the number you want me to make come on what else you want me to do action when the balancer off cut out all the hard part what yeah that one's got some time on it I think it has some time on it before it got old before it got old yeah the thing is those balancers from ATI you can send them back to them they rebuild them really yeah so you can have like a 30 year old one of these and they'll redo it yep I wonder if people would want to see a balancer Factory comment let us know if you want to I do know JC baby they build these things in Maryland wait wait wait I know what it is all right oil pan bolts go into the front cover oh just like the rest of the front cover how simple and easy to assemble and disassemble all of this is it's not if I see three head engine this is a different block yeah this is a g351 block if you see the code down here I don't know if you can read it not a Ford Guru but somebody in there knows what that is probably older than the other one before they started putting the SVO into the casting because there's no I don't see any SVO or any of that logos on here that anywhere so far I think all the wear stuff is neat like all the years of this being tightened down has made a nice Bell mouth on this once straight piece of pipe so helpful I thought it was going to be harder than that he said but not to you so that's different than the other one there's no piston Oilers in this one no there's not yeah brand new I can reuse those yeah yeah these can be reused for certain we've encountered an issue here or what could have been an issue cam gear hitting the bolts couldn't get any kind of wrench on here had to hammer it 12.0 for it and it looks like this Ridge was getting into the retainer plate like this was just like the wrong retainer plate for this timing set because that's that was not there before well probably what's happened is because it was coming off of here because these are channels so there's supposed to be some oil in there right but I think it is eating into that because whatever's happened here yeah it's weird check that out good thing we took it apart oh wow that thing is just boogered in there too get this other one out let's see what's going on in here self clearance wow that's nasty that's one of the great jewels online actually banging into everything oh yeah there's no good way of doing it you know like and like oh look I did this like perfectly it's gonna happen a lot of numbers there's a lot of stuff going on here I don't know what that is I don't know if this is a Comp Cam or uh it is nice and fat look how fat those lobes are as opposed to like really like your stock cam would be real like pointy because the valve's not open very long you want to learn all about cam specs you can find that in the lake speed Thunderbird Resurrection playlist where you will learn way more than you asked for about everything that has to do with these things yeah that one's probably actually closer to what we actually put in the new engine visually it looks like it yeah it looks very similar what should I put this up your butt that would hurt she couldn't resist that it felt like Stanley these oil holes are can chamfer why can't there be any dang team names or something initials on these to figure out where they came from well the thing is there's all kinds of markings on this engine that don't identify anything to us but there's like tons of different little number series BWI 875 number 411 6-03 this is another one says Jr cb440. who knows Jack Roush Junior Johnson Jackie Robinson [Music] so now we get to find out the all-important cylinder finish numbers and for those of you who aren't familiar with these terms we'll explain them firstly you have a frame of reference if you haven't seen the other video yet which you should go watch those if you haven't already a lot of this will make a lot more sense oh yeah you can kind of see if it's still sort of in there yeah you can see the ones where that was really really rusted but obviously between the the foggit the motor oil and running it it just knocked it all away and well it came out red so that's a good sign yeah one tool we have knew this time we didn't have last time is a microscope so as opposed to having the profilometer we had before where you had to do everything on the screen now we can do it from the laptop so let's go to the one we know where there was a bunch of rust in it right in there whoa oh yeah you can see all the pits from where all the rust was absolutely yeah it fitted it up from all the rust this is why this is the most incredible amazing tool so the thought is just is this is this is equally I'm at a loss for words here this is as equally mind-blowing as the other engine wondering why it lost so much power how did this one stay the same with walls that look like that well I will say this those pits will hold oil maybe better to have a few pits in there for it to be then completely worn out but yeah that's so we have the rust pet hone yeah so that's that's one cylinder let's go see another one we think we can see so maybe the…